2004-04-12 [Farewell]: wow. very impressive marc. only somebody whos suffered trough so much would be willing to extend his hand to others. takes a very big man to put his own life on display and i commend your bravery.

2004-04-12 [TheRogue]: It was very very hard to put this wiki up, and letting others see this part of me exactly as it was 9 years ago...but if it makes just one person step back and reconsider their true options, then it was worth putting my most private feelings on display...this was 9 years ago, mind you...but I can remember those emotions and feelings as if they were yesterday.. thanks for the support Steve..

2004-04-12 [Perplexity]: Truly a hell of a thing to do - selfless and brave to bare something so painfully personal in order to hopefully help the nameless faceless lost soul who may stumble upon this and find solace. Thank you, Marc... I've been barreling down that slippery highway, too... and considered... turned the radio up and kept on driving... so here I am... and here you are... both, still driving and striving. *hug* I love ya, Marc. You're a genuinely great person, through and through.

2004-04-12 [SeLoCeS]: i cried when i read this page, i cried not in pitty but in full understanding and i know each and everyone of us have dark times but we forget others experiance them aswell and to read this made me realise i am not alone in the darkness that can press me down so much that it hurts behond belief. Thankyou Rogue its the only thing i can say..

2004-04-12 [Mom]: I applaud you Marc for sharing this with all of us. I hope it reaches someone feeling just like this at this moment and shows them theres always more..so much more to live for.Too many children...some in ET feel there is no one there for them and literally die because there is no one to talk to them. Just talk...listen...how hard can that be for any of us? Please...if you find yourself feeling like this there's always someone here in ET that will listen and care. Thanks again Marc for reminding us this happens too often.

2004-04-12 [Chaos Sun]: I'm in tears Marc, wow. I've had my down days in the past, i wish i coulda read this back then. It would have helped alot during my days of mental breakdown. To all that read this and still feel alone. Talk to me, I'm here to listen and to help. To you Marc, I admire your strength to open up and show a time in your life that was so hard.

2004-04-12 [prisoner#81378]: Nice page, Rogue....I'm sure it will help plenty of kids here.....AND adults.....

2004-04-12 [Jeesum Crowe]: I know this is for suicide, but lately I've been thinking about cutting again, and I'm glad I clicked that link, 'cause now I think I should stop and ponder on it a little longer before I do something. It's hard when there's no one there to talk to.

2004-04-12 [TheRogue]: it's all the same, hun... one thing always seems to lead to another.. and cutting is another stage that needs to be addressed..it is a beginning sign of more later...you would be suprised who gladly listen to you if you try...when someone hears these things, they know it's time to drop everything and listen.. because of the severity of the situation.. people care.. and sometimes.. you just don't know until it's too late, that you could have helped...

2004-04-12 [Jeesum Crowe]: Yeah. In any case thank you. (I'm trying not to cry, I'm in the middle of study hall and people would think me weird if I randomly started crying, lol)

2004-04-12 [Sylvia Rote]: i agree with Prisoner..this is a great idea and will save many lives.

2004-04-12 [Guardian of the Night]: Here is the painfull part, my mortal sin, my broken heart. In which I can not mend, falling down into my painfilled past, of which no one can understand. Death is just a place to go, I have no hopes, I have no home. My diary explains it all.

2004-04-12 [TheRogue]: Thank you Toni.. for volunteering.. hopefully it will help everyone out.. even ourselves if needed..

2004-04-12 [Guardian of the Night]: *smiles* No problem I was glad to. You cannot help another person, if you don't allow them to help you. I may have problems, and I know sometimes I fall into that shallow hole, but others are more important, and for them I will drag myself out of that hole. And I can understand a lot of things, I can understand a lot of pain. I listen and I help myself by helping them. So there is really no need to thank me. I want to Thank you, for giving me the chance to help someone else, and myself.

2004-04-13 [Yuriona]: Thank you Rogue for having the strength and courage to post this wiki. There are just too many folks out there who have come to the point where they believe that death is the only answer they have left. It's good to know that there are people out there who care and will listen no matter what. I wish that I had such an outlet as a teenager then perhaps I wouldn't have had the troubles I did. I can only thank God for sending the angel that is my husband for finding me when he did and giving me strength through his love and understanding. If you need any more help here Rogue, just say the word man. I'm around.

2004-04-13 [organicparadox]: very thoughtful rogue..... your heart is bigger than a mountain

2004-04-13 [Ashen_Dream]: I will definately put my thanx down here. Marc is real about this, he helped me not a month back when things got real bad for me. A hand is what everyone needs I offer mine also to those as someone offered to me...thanks again.

2004-04-13 [Lerune]: While I respectfully choose not to be invloved in any way with this wiki (you know my views, I cannot do what you are doing) I must say that I admire your desire to help other people. I wish you well your endeavor. Even though I cannot and will not help give you my aid, I can and DO give you my support. Good luck, Roguey.

2004-04-13 [TheRogue]: Your support is always welcomed, Lerune.. thank you always for being there and helping me with so much...

2004-04-13 [Cougar]: *the stress in here eyes lessens a little and a rare and real smile shows* It's nice to see that there are more of us than the few i have now. *hugs toby for prolly the millionth time for this wiki*

2004-04-14 [ButterflyFairy]: Wow.Thanks for sharing this Rogue.I've been at this point in life quite a few times,and it's touching to know that there are people who have been in through the exact same thing and made it through. I think it shows alot of strength and courage to share this with others and truely want to help others.*hugs*

2004-04-14 [Cougar]: Even for those of us that havent been there. (i havent and hope to God i never am) it still puts us in a new light. we realize how freaking lucky and blessed we truely are and when we get stressed we sit back and realize how petty some of the things we stress over are. it also puts more compassion in our hearts and more urge to help those who are down to surmount thier troubles and join us in the blessings that God and life have for us.

2004-04-17 [hanhepi]: i'm willing to do any thing i can to help. i've been through it too, and still have days where i feel like my life doesnt matter. i've always found comfort in helpin others. soryy i had to edit the page so many times to get my name added. it took me a few to realize those were ya'lls names next to the ids. <<a little dence today...

2004-04-19 [scum buckett]: I love helping people, but its confusing when I can help people but never help myself.

2004-04-19 [mywolfalways]: Thank you for putting this page up. I always like to read about these perspectives.

2004-04-19 [TheRogue]: we never take our own advice, because in essence, the advice we give, never 'applies' to our current situation, or the situation we are advising another person about.. in our case, (and most people who give advice frequently feel this way mostly) the advice we are meting out, doesn't apply to our personal situations... they RARELY do in fact...

2004-04-19 [scum buckett]: Thats true, just confusing ^_~

2004-04-19 [TheRogue]: we never take our own advice, because 'our' situation is special...our advice doesnt apply..

2004-04-19 [Llevon]: hmm...

2004-04-19 [TheRogue]: i'm speaking for myself mostly... i never seem to believe that the advice i give actually could apply to my own life, even though deep down i know it does.. but it's always just easier to tell someone else what they should do to make their life better, and it always sounds good and do-able for them.. but never myself.. ;)

2004-04-19 [Yuriona]: But most of the advice we offer others comes from our own experiences...or at least it does in my case. All of us are hoping to help others deal with similar circumstances that we too have experienced and survived through. You've come through so much and are still around to help others...that's a good thing.

2004-04-19 [Llevon]: *nods* course there are those of us who can understand more than most people about those problems...or just an understanding about people in general. i think that's me.

2004-04-21 [Jeesum Crowe]: When I give other people advice sometimes it's like "Wow, that could never happen to me" because you're too blind to realise that, actually, it should be "Wow, that's the same with me!" But sometimes it is in the reverse. A lot of the time I give someone advice and it's like "Oh my god, why didn't I think of that before?!"

2004-04-21 [Yuriona]: Just as the old saying goes 'Hindsight is 20/20'. Still better to be able to examine past mistakes than never give yourself the chance to make them in the first place.

2004-04-21 [Cougar]: In our weakest moments... someone has to be our strength.

2004-04-21 [Perplexity]: I just wanted to say that I was at a really low point last night - seriously contemplating all sorts of things... that I shouldn't...but I got a good friend on the phone and they helped me, even t hough maybe they think they didnt - just to have someone that wanted to talk to me and took my problems seriously... was... so important.

2004-04-21 [Jeesum Crowe]: I think that's the problem with me. I have this thing in my head, it feels like, that blocks off any acceptance of outside help most of the time. Like if I talk to a friend or my mum or anyone and they want to help me I always feel like it's really fake or they're just being cliche or that they don't really care, but they're saying it because they know that they have to say something. Sometimes when I go for help it just makes me feel even more isolated.

2004-04-21 [Perplexity]: It took a LOT for me to call that person... and I talked to them for about ten minutes the first time and didnt call them back until the next day, and I heard how worried they were about me... but yes, I felt that way too, that no one would give a shit and everyone has their own problems, I should just face mine or not face em or I dunno, I was pretty irrational, and having someone to talk to was my saving grace.

2004-04-21 [Yuriona]: It's really hard to believe that anyone could possibly know what you're going through when you're hurting so much. It always seems so much easier to just let the hurt and anguish swallow you whole, especially when it seems like it will anyways. To reach out to someone takes guts...I commend your bravery Plex. *hugs* Just remember...no matter how much any of us hurt, there is always someone who cares about us.

2004-04-21 [Jeesum Crowe]: Yeah. Sometimes it's different though. Sometimes when I talk to people it doesn't really help me mentally, but later when I think about cutting or suicide or anything because I'm that down a lot of times I think of the people who really sounded sincere and I think that I can't dissapoint them (usually someone I really respect), and it doesn't really help my mentally want to live or stop, but it gives me a reason not to do it. Just a "No, I can't, because I'll let ____ down."

2004-04-21 [Yuriona]: I hear ya Jeesum. There were times when I was so low I didn't think it would matter if anything happened to me but then I'd have to make myself think about how it would affect my family. It made me think about how it would disappoint them that I gave up so easily and it would give me the strength to hang on.

2004-04-21 [Jeesum Crowe]: Exactly. Sometimes, though, when I think back on it I think about how it's a stupid thing to stick around because other people say they want you. It's like a constant tennis match in my head.

2004-04-21 [Yuriona]: That's true too. For me it was a bit different... I guess I was always a bit of a crybaby so sometimes it felt as though people expected me to just give up. I just couldn't prove them right. I had to prove to myself that I was stronger than what anyone thought. Sometimes I think the only reason I got through my dark times was due to spite.

2004-04-21 [Jeesum Crowe]: It's kind of ironic a lot of the time. Which drives me crazy. Most of the time what helps me when I can clear my head enough to think of it is exactly what I want to do with my life. And I think that if I die now or if I hurt myself now and get behind in my life because I need time to heal, I'll get so far behind and I might not be able to do all the things I dream of doing. And I think about being where I want to be, and at that time and looking back and saying "Oh my god, what if I killed myself then? I would never be here." But then I always get this looming thought of What if I never get where I want to? It's extremely annoying not to know what you're living for.

2004-04-21 [Yuriona]: Yeah. Sometimes all you can do is just take it one day at a time. I had to just keep focused on tomorrow. If I could get through until tomorrow it would be worth it since tomorrow just has to be better than today.

2004-04-21 [Jeesum Crowe]: That would be a happy thing if it worked all the time! In any case, I guess the point is to keep going and maybe some day you'll know why it is you're still breathing.

2004-04-21 [Yuriona]: I agree. Well put.

2004-04-21 [Jeesum Crowe]: lol, we'll see if it works

2004-04-21 [Yuriona]: I'll keep my fingers crossed. :)

2004-04-21 [Perplexity]: Sometimes, it's not even day by day, but moment by moment.

2004-04-22 [Mirasaur]: *sigh* ... Last night was bad for me... I've been cutting for almost 6 months, off an on, it seems like as soon as it starts to look up, it comes crashing down again.. I'm not going to school for a little bit.. trying to get my life back.. my parents follow me everywhere, because I called my counsler last night and she had me talk to them.. I cut worse this time then ever before... it all hurts so bad, I just wanted to go.. 15 years has been enough..

2004-04-22 [scum buckett]: No no, its not hun..

2004-04-22 [Yuriona]: 15 years is a short time to be filled with so much hurt. Your parents do love you even though it may not seem that way.

2004-04-22 [scum buckett]: Im 15, and gone through all kinds of pain...but im holding on because I know in 3 years, there is so much more coming

2004-04-22 [Perplexity]: For me it didnt get great until early 20s. And now in my early 30s I feel something new coming... it all just seems scarier I guess. I wonder, can one expect upheaval every ten years? I'll try to prepare myself better for the next one... =P Hang in there Mad G and Scum - and Yuri *hugs* always there with a supportive word.

2004-04-22 [Jeesum Crowe]: 15 years is never enough. My grandfather died at 62-- and when you think of it that's an insanely short amount of time. You think of people who have lived wonderful lives deep into their eighties or nineties. I think I want to be one of those people if I can manage it.

2004-04-22 [scum buckett]: My great granny's 80 now ^_^ teeheehee she's great....talks alot...but I'd rather her talk alot than not at all...*cough*

2004-04-22 [Guardian of the Night]: If any of you want to talk, or share some pain with me. I can help, really I can. I have been through so much, for only being 14, and I know your probably thinking, I'm not getting help from someone that is younger than me, what could they possibably know about understanding. Well just as you are, I have been through a lot to. But I'm still here and I'm still strong.

2004-04-22 [Yuriona]: *smiles* That's why I'm here Plex. I'm just 30 myself but I too have seen and been through a lot of sh!t. I've learned that if you have the strength to hang on, things do get better. They may not be as good as you hoped they'd be but they do get better. I'm here to listen any time anyone wants to talk. :D

2004-04-25 [Sour Patch Kid]: hi im 13 and i cant stop cutting, no matter what i do or what my friends do. what can i do to stop?ehlp?!pleaz (btw im not really this person im just usin there name)

2004-04-25 [black lotus]: i need someone to talk to... badly...

2004-04-25 [scum buckett]: Im here if you need to talk

2004-04-25 [Sylvia Rote]: i'm here to listen, Lotus

2004-04-25 [scum buckett]: I tried talking to her, but she just said never mind and that it was stupid :(

2004-04-25 [Jeesum Crowe]: nothing is stupid o.O

2004-04-25 [Jeesum Crowe]: you know... except thinking 2 and 2 make 22...

2004-04-25 [Cougar]: but 2 and 2 does make 22 *makes innocent face*

2004-04-25 [Jeesum Crowe]: lol, good one. anyway, point is, I hope she's OK, really.

2004-04-25 [scum buckett]: Yea me too

2004-04-26 [Sour Patch Kid]: i dont know if she relaly is i meanim talking to her and she says shes given up and i really dont want ne thing to happen to ne one

2004-04-26 [Janouk]: It is really strange to find this wikipage just now, when I am filled with thinking about this subject. I was feeling extremly bad last year, and at some point, all I could do is try to ignore the thought of: Would this window be high enough?'and so on... I never did anything because I couldn't hurt anyone, and I just knew that would happen. I also told myself it was caused by teener hormones, even though I knew it was not so. It kept me alive. Anywayz..I have a very good friend, but she is down. Never been that well, but now it's terrible. I didn't knew she was SO far, but last friday she told me she had been drinking something of wich I don't know the English name right now, in any case

2004-04-26 [Janouk]: poisonous, but it didn't work, she's still here. It slapped me in the face, I was so shocked. Now I want to do something, but I'm sure that most of the methods you suggested won't work with her. I will talk with my mentor on wednesday, but then I also feel like I'm betraying her. Also I still don't think it would help. I think everyone has the right to do whatever he wants, but I have the feeling she can still get out of this state, and see the better side of life. It's just that I cannot convince her, also because I simply cannot tell her life is beautiful, because it isn't.

2004-04-26 [Jeesum Crowe]: Well, ok, this might be stupid to you and maybe you don't think it'll work (never hurts to try) but ask her what she wants to do with her life. Like, where she wants to be when she grows up (famous, a mother, in Paris... anything) and then ask her if it would be worth missing it because right now she's low. Ask her to picture herself exactly where she would want to be in 10 years, and have her think about all the things she wants to do and how she'll miss that if she dies now or if she ignores life now. If she lets it slip by she might not get another chance, so she's got to grab at it now so that she can see the beauty in life by ending up where she always wanted to be.

2004-04-26 [Janouk]: Thanks for responding...it's just that she thinks everyday is her last one. She doesn't think about the future anymore, or so I think. I will give it a try. It's just that the thought that comes into my mind sometimes when thinking about "where do I live for?" is "Nothing". If you leave this world now, you won't miss anything, for you'll be gone forgood. Once you're dead, you won't miss anything. But thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

2004-04-26 [TheRogue]: sometimes, the worst thing to do is give up.. it just fuels them further in some cases.. if your friend has said or tried to hurt themselves, getting outside help is not betrayal.. it is necessary to save a life. the worst thing about depression is the inability to see what it is you do live for.. and everything seems pointless.. but it's not.. there is a design and a purpose for all things, and sometimes it takes longer to see what it is.. you live for nothing right now.. but it's not true.. you are living for something not set before you that you can't see or know about. don't give up on your friend. no matter how tiring and exhasperating things are.. they still need you even if they won

2004-04-26 [TheRogue]: won't say it.. it's when they get totally quiet and say nothing that you pay even more attention.. because they are right on the edge of the abyss, and the thought is calling to them... remind them that if they are dead, they will not ever find out that tomorrow was to be the day that it was their time to shine.. and all the things they had been wanting and waiting for so desperately, are all JUST around the corner.. if they are patient..so.. all this time they've spent wishing for things to come, will all be wasted if they give up now. they are on the home stretch of life.. and all it takes is a little guts and a lot of courage to face the world and draw swords apon your enemies, and never

2004-04-26 [TheRogue]: fear your enemy's blade.. because you make your fear and anger and depression your weapons, to see you through the hardest times.. use them against the very things that fuel your depression...declare war against the things that hurt you, and cut them each down one by one, until you are the only one left standing between you and your brightest and strongest future..

2004-04-26 [Janouk]: And what if I go talk to her, and it turns out she was doing a bit better now, but by saying it bring it all up again and give her bad ideas? I really don't know what got me out of my 'depression', but it wasn't because someone talked me over..I'm afraid her reaction will be different from what I want to...*sigh* but thanks, already the time you've spend to type it down means a lot to me, I'll give it a try, sorry if I might have been acting without thinking everything over, if so, sorry, teeners overreact now and then...stupid hormones. ~Janouk~

2004-04-26 [TheRogue]: The fact that you care enough to make sure she is feeling better, shouldn't send her spiraling back into it, one of the biggest things people think is that they are alone.. when you come to them, and genuinely seek assurance that they are feeling better, it tells them that you care and that they are not REALLY alone..certain things must change to bring someone from that pit.. and it is subjective according to each person.. what brought you out, may not bring someone else out.. each case has to be individually thought out and as long as she knows you care, and you continue to reassure her of that.. she might have a positive response.. sometimes all it takes is knowing they aren't completely

2004-04-26 [TheRogue]: alone, and sometimes it's what may start the healing process...

2004-04-26 [Jeesum Crowe]: Just knowing that someone they care can bring it up, too, and bring it up in a calm and safe manner, it can make someone realise that you can be their safe-spot, like, their haven, really. They'll know that you're open to being someone they can talk and that you won't overreact, and then they know they can go to you without worrying about other things. No obstacles, just conversation. It's good to be that person for someone. It's harder to approach someone for help than it is to be approached by someone who wants to help you.

2004-04-27 [Cougar]: just keep with her. i had heck of a lot of crap on me during my life and the only reason i am here today is my mother... it's not b/c my mother is my mom it's b/c she walked me through step by step. took my by the hand and showed my that there is at least one...ONE person out there that love and cares for me.. trust me... for a teenage girl that is important. if she cries.. hold her... if she fights hold her for a second longer and then let her loose... keep calm and dont get frustrated. you dont have to lie to her to keep her happy you have to love her or show you care for her enought to want her to stay.

2004-04-27 [Byne]: Hey. I deal with a lot of friends, and convince them not to commit suicide. I do my best to help people. I support this wiki. I think it is a really really good idea.

2004-04-28 [Paul Doyle]: My situation was rather different than the situations experienced by many others here. For 22 years, from 1981 to 2003, my mother slowly deteriorated, and then died from, the most severe, horrible progressive form of multiple sclerosis (MS). MS patients who can still drive, or can easily get about on Lark scooters, have no idea how fortunate they are to be able to lead a fairly normal life with multiple sclerosis. Anyway, my whole family reacted oddly, though through it all my father stayed with her (even when he obviously strayed from her to be with another woman). My sister was the strong one, and still is.

2004-04-28 [Paul Doyle]: (continued) My brother was the fragile one. He turned to drugs, alcohol and suffered from bipolar disorder---thankfully all under control now. Me? I withdrew completely, retracting into the recesses of my mind, and had a terrible self-image. I began tearing out moles from my leg, which certainly hurt though I found it strangely soothing. I would dwell upon death and darkness, and several times contemplated suicide. With my mother deteriorating in such an indignant fashion, and being told lies and bullshit about her condition from my father, who turned to booze and other women to drown his sorrows

2004-04-28 [Paul Doyle]: (continued) I honestly didn't know how to react. There was very little support to be had, because my father was an unsentimental type who hated the very idea of "counseling". While I withdrew, I discovered writing and art, around age 13 (1986/7). My family ignored me, or thought it was quaintly amusing. When I began to spend more and more time on the art and writing (ESPECIALLY the writing) I began to be harrassed and disrupted by my sister and my father, who I suspected had something disturbing going on when no-one else was around. Meanwhile, I pitched in ever more, taking on additional chores, doing most of housework (especially after my sister went to college in 1988)

2004-04-28 [Paul Doyle]: initially being rewarded, but then being taken for granted by my father. (My brother would be home, but he'd lock himself in his room plugged into to the amplifier and doing drugs) so the responsibility would be mine. I had no friends to speak of, being hindered a little by my being "different", and hindered a LOT by not being allowed to have a social life, as I had to do that which my mother could no longer do. I gained a lot of weight (I'm even heavier now, but I've a lot more muscle now than I did then). I began getting more intensely into the art and writing. I could never give up the writing, but I was so depressed and roundly harrassed at home that I gave up my art

2004-04-28 [Paul Doyle]: (continued . . . I'm almost done) except for Drawing class. My father refused to take me driving, and I had nobody else to turn to (I finally got my license at age 17, but was not allowed to drive until I was 19). It was during this time that my yet-to-be-diagnosed ADHD intensified. Then I graduated from high school (frustrating everyone by not getting straight A's) and then bolted like a bat out of hell to college . . . where I started out awesomely, but then slumped terribly. I locked myself in my dorm room and contemplated suicide as bad news and more bad news mounted regarding my mother and my brother (he went to psych ward). I cutted weeks of classes because I did not know how to react.

2004-04-28 [Paul Doyle]: (continued) I starting writing just for the sake of writing, and it came out like shit. I dropped out of college, wound up washing dishes for a living, and was just a total misfit. I ignored my parents, even as my mother continued to decline (now she could not do ANYTHING on her own). I just wanted to stay away from it all, haunted by memories of being stuck with my mother in the front row of church with my mother (my father sitting by himself way in the back), the vicious rumors about my mother being "retarded", the unrewarding loveless situation at home. "I've done my part," I'd think, straining relations with my entire family over this stuff.

2004-04-28 [Paul Doyle]: (last one, I promise) I flunked out of college again, continued washing dishes, thought about killing myself again, and did another really crappy version of my book (this was 1994/5). But do you know what? I'm glad I persisted. Family wounds slowly healed, though there are still rifts and my extended family does not support my hobbies, which I have renewed with a passion during the last year. I fell in love, got married, had a boy, got a better job, got belatedly diagnosed with ADHD at age 24 in 1998 . .. and Mom died June 30, 2003, at age 58. I still have yet to visit her grave. The struggle continues. But I live! Don't give in to suicide, people, PLEASE!!! Life IS worth living.

2004-04-28 [Cougar]: hey paul... would you mind if i put this on another wiki and asked toby to attach it to this page?

2004-04-28 [Paul Doyle]: yes, please. What is the wiki? I am also on couselors of elftown Anyway, if it helps someone, you may absolutely copy and paste. :)